48 replies to this topic

[John B]

This Idea sounds to be an ideal halfway house between the present law and the unpallatable situation of having to get a license. You are also correct to get your proposal to the MSP early..Past experiance of this tactic has shown that he/she is more likely to promote a idea if it has already been thought out for him/her.


Cheers

John B.

Kenny, on 30 April 2010 - 09:47 PM, said:

Right picture the worst case scenario, powers are granted to Scottish Government.

Instead of just waiting to see what is landed on us by people who don't care or understand our sport.
I have been working on a possible proposal to offer the MSP's

Instead of licensing or any form of tighter controls, it can be overcome in a very inexpensive and controllable way in which is very workable.

PERMIT SCHEME:

You buy a permit from a post office, enough to cover the costs of the publication of the booklets.
Which consist of a counterpart which only the post office retains.

Once purchased the conditions of the permit will be that you have to carry it on you at all times and also store any aie weapons in a secure cupboard or cabinet.
The law already states that unless going to a gun club or a gun shop or land where permission is granted then you do not have resonable grounds to be in public with an air weapon.

So if stopped then you have to prodeuce your permit, if you don't then you get a 'ticket' to produce it within a reasonable time (say 7 days) in the meantime the police can go and view the post offfice and see the counterpart to prove you have purchased one!
If you cannot produce one or the permit is proved to be fake then the police have the right to take the air weapon and destroy it, they will also be granted the right to search your dwelling and confiscate any other air weapons in your possession.

If stopped in public, and you have a valid permit the police still have the right to visit your property to check that your storage facilities are adequate and comply with the conditions of the permit.

This may sound harsh but lets think for a minute, most incidents that occur at home involving children are caused due to the fact that air weapons are left under beds, in unlocked cupboards, attics or garages.


LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK PLEASE!
This is just a rough draft, with the jist of the propasal?

rgds
kenny

[rob72]

James101, on 07 July 2011 - 10:20 PM, said:

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Apologies for the late reply, I have been on a short sea voyage and my blackberry was out of signal range.

Geeee, I'm real sorry sir I thought we were in a debate about the future of air guns, not an english lesson. I apologise if my suffering from dyslexia offends you but there is no need for the personal digs.

To answer your question, no I do not want airgunning to become an affluent sport, I would just like to carry on with my target shooting in peace without being tarred with the same brush as neds who give all airgunners a bad name through their stupidity with their cheap airguns. And I AM in a position to call these neds idiots on low wages considering that the people who appear on the front pages for air gun crimes are usually people who sit about all day raking in benefits and who have got nothing better to do with their time than to misuse airguns, while responsible shooters like myself, a former servicemen and a serving officer in the merchant navy, get a bad reputation because of my choice of hobby.

SMK air guns ARE cheap and nasty and they are significantly contributing to scotlands air gun problem. If they are as good as you think then why do so many people round the world complain about the poor quality of chinese airgun makes such as industry brand or tech force (sold under the umbrella of smk). Not everyone that gets them are idiots on low wages, I am sorry if anyone on here took offence to that. But let's face it, smk punt these cheap airguns to anyone as they are out to make a profit. I know, just as many of you will know, they use to end up getting shipped to and sold in shifty second hand shops (for example the notorious victor morris in glasgow or edinburghs leith walk) run by dell boys who would happily sell them on to people well under the legal age - and please don't dispute this as I have seen hoards of under age neds get them this way with my own two eyes (this has obviously stopped in recent years due to tighter laws _but thanks to these clowns lots of these airguns are in the hands of neds).

Their range of rifles are purposely aimed at people who know very little about airgunning and simple people who are seduced by smk's false claims about their rifles being “FULL POWER“ at cheap prices. Do you realy think some ned is going to walk in to a gun shop and purchase a £500 PCP so they can start taking pot shots at cats and kids with the risk of having it taken off them by the police? Obviously not. I have lost count of how many times iv watched the news and seen the hero firearms officer saying he has siezed lots of deadly weapons from the streets, and when the camera turns to the guns, I see G10 air pistols which are very easy to spot, and smk air rifles that are easily identifiable due to their cheap shiny wood/gloss stocks and other items like tubes of bb`s etc. Come on guys you can't deny this.

Again as I said before, not everyone who buys smk guns are idiots on low wages. I fully acknowledge that they can be used to introduce airgunning to youngsters and they can be used for plinking purposes, however I strongly feel that smk share a large portion of the blame for scotlands air gun problem due to their unsound marketing methods.

Dyslexia cured ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Anyhoo, can you prove that all neds own smk rifles ? anytime i,ve heard of any incident involving an air weapon it never reveals the make and model of the rifle.
Any info on their unsound marketing methods ?

My guess is that neds use guns they or their friends have owned for years, or found (up the loft).
Is it SMK dealers that are irresponsible ?
Maybe the govt could raise the legal age limit for possession, or make all air weapons at least £500...that might deter the young thugs.

[Teratopside]

Folks,

Just thought I'd add something here, BASC are on the consultative body along with organisations like STSF and a few other associations who are in discussions with ScotGov, SARPA were part of the initial phase and are now working directly with BASC to help fight or mitigate any impact to the shooting public.
Nicole and the BASC team are working hard to keep damage to the minimum.

Keep an eye on the BASC site for updates and feel free to petition your local MP's.

http://www.basc.org....otland-news.cfm

Best Regards
Graham

[Ceathreamhnan]

With regard to the permit proposal, would this not have to be some form of photo ID document, if you were to suggest that purchase of pellets were conditional on having one?
Although, personally I think that mail order would be a way round this easily enough. Any requirement say, for a well known Blackpool air gun shop to have to have evidence of a permit to post pellets to a Scottish address (or preventing it at all) would require legislation in E&W to cover that.

[CameronWilson]

People who flout the current laws, will continue to flout any new laws.

Ergo, the only people who will benefit from the creation of new laws, are those doing the creating - the politicians.

In EVERY area of policy, the politicians play-out an act:

1. their predecessors were all idiots
2. the policies their predecessors created were all idiotic
3. the politician in question, is the only individual on the face of the earth who can fix this problem (through the creation of new policies)
4. repeat from stage 1.

Allowing someone else's policy to actually work is of no benefit to a politician... and no benefit = no interest.

What would really be of benefit to the greater good, is if the police/CPS applied the full measure of the current laws.

[CameronWilson]

On the subject of licencing airguns in any form, I would ask any responsible individual - why on earth you would want that to happen?

There is a common misconception amongst responsible shooters, that the introduction of a licencing scheme will allow them to distinguish themselves from the irresponsible shooters. That by the Daily Mail reporting that the cat was shot with an unlicenced airgun, we as individuals who uphold the law will be set aside, the true culprits will be unmasked, and that the years of injustice will finally come to an end. This is a view I strongly subscribed to until only recently, when I realised...

***DANGER WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!***

This is a trap. I can guarantee you, that it will only be a matter of time, before a licenced air weapon will fall into the wrong hands. Even with the best will in the world, events will conspire and some poor bast**d (who probably hasn't broken a law in his life) will suffer a freak misfortune. At which point two things will happen:

1. Daily Mail readers will take great pleasure in reading that the cat was shot with a licenced airgun, public outrage will be cultivated and we will all be tarred with the same brush again.

You could argue that that is no different from the situation we are in today, but:

2. the politicians who were credited with the creation of the licencing scheme will no longer be answerable, and will have moved on. The new politicians, keen to have their own 15 minutes of fame and seizing upon public opinion, will be quick to point out the failings of their predecessors licencing scheme, and will announce 'Even with the strictest of laws in place, we cannot control these deadliest of weapons. We have tried every measure possible, and the only avenue we have left is an outright ban.'



Make no mistake, licencing is the thin end of the wedge.

[Teratopside]

OK just thought I drop a quick update here.
Frow what we've just been informed, there will be a licence scheme in place before the end of the current SNP term.
It was one of their manifesto pledges and an SNP majority has changed the question from if to how.

Both SARPA and BASC have been invited to consultative body launching November 19th. FYI SARPA is signing an agreement with BASC to ensure we work towards a common goal. Everyone is hoping to keep the damage to a minimum.

More news as it comes, I'll keep the SARPA site up to date and cross post here when I can.

Best regards
Graham

[Ceathreamhnan]

Thanks for keeping us informed Graham (we were speaking about this yesterday); it seemed to have gone fairly quiet since the Westminster bill has gone through).

[Argyll Rabbiter]

Been a while since I have been on this forum so just catching up- thanks to Kenny for starting this thread. Whilst a permit scheme may not solve the problem, I cannot see it adding to any more restrictive legislation in the future. To ensure our sport can survive under future legislation we need to get MSP onside, I know they have been hoodwinked etc but that cannot be reversed. As such the legit airgun community i.e. our good selves, have to be part of the solution and, more importantly, be "seen" to be willing to be part of the solution - if that means proactively engaging MSP about a permit systems so be it.

Stephen